Noob help: Can i achieve my goals with SongKong and if so how?

[steveyg777]

Hi Paul and everyone!

I am a noob to SongKong. I want to do specific things with SK but need firstly to know that SK can help me achieve them and secondly how to configure SK to do so. I’ll try my best to descibe my use case and I hope that, at least, Paul can help me understand and implement what I need to in order to achieve my end goals.

So i have all kinds of audio but want to tag and rename them in slightly different ways so that they are organised in the process too.

The following are naming formats for specific ‘media types’ and should be easy to understand because of the initial two subfolders that files would be organised into. ALL names need to be in ‘Title Case’, with 2-digit padding for disc numbers and track numbers. The “Artists” folder is for artists Albums, EP’s artists Singles, Live Albums and artist Interviews, etc. For playlists; if tracks don’t have track numbers included, then they need to be generated in ascending order to maintain the intended play order. Here are my ‘naming formats’:

Artists, Singles, etc:
/Organised/Artists/{First letter of AlbumArtist NOT including ‘The’}/{AlbumArtist}/{Album} ({Year})/<IF multidisc THEN “[CD{DiscNumber }(])”><IF subtitle THEN “Subtitle] “>{TrackNumber} {TrackTitle} (feat. {FeaturedArtists})
therefore:
/Organised/Artists/B/The Beatles/Help! (1965)/[CD01] 01 Help!

Compilations:
/Organised/Compilations/{Album} ({Year}) by {AlbumArtist}/<IF multidisc THEN “[CD{DiscNumber }(])”><IF subtitle THEN “Subtitle] “>{TrackNumber} {TrackTitle} ({Artist} feat. ({FeaturedArtists}))

Soundtracks:
/Organised/Soundtracks/{Album} ({Year}) by {AlbumArtist}/<IF multidisc THEN “CD{DiscNumber }”><IF subtitle THEN “Subtitle “>{TrackNumber} {TrackTitle} ({Artist} feat. {FeaturedArtists})

Audiobooks:
/Organised/Audiobooks/{Album} ({Year}) by {AlbumArtist}/<IF multidisc THEN “CD{DiscNumber }”><IF subtitle THEN “Subtitle “>/{BookTitle or Album} - {TrackNumber} {ChapterTitle or TrackTitle}

Playlists:
/Organised/Playlists/{PlaylistName}/{TrackNumber} {TrackTitle} ({Artist} feat. {FeaturedArtists})

If a release is multi-disc and/or has disc subtitles then insert them within []. (Notice for each given media type whether these elements are included within the filename or represent a sub folder within the releases folder structure, such as with Audiobooks). Compilations also need their ‘Compilation’ field/toggle turned on if it isn’t already.

So my questions are:

1. can i achieve these things? if so how? (what functions will i need to utilise to achieve them, what would my workflow look like and what settings i may need to enable/disable within the settings, etc)

2. can you help me create the correct naming masks please? likewise if i need any scripter entries too please?

I plan to use SongKong from my Mac (M1 Pro) for now but would like to try and make it more of a bulletproof/foolproof automated system to leave running on a watch folder as new downloads drop into the folder on my synology nas (running in a container, which I’ve already installed in preparation).

Thank you in advance to all who can help me in this mission.

[paultaylor]

Hi, yes that can definently be done (except for playlists we dont deal with playlists only audio files).

But I have a few questions for you, for this to work the files need to have quality metadata so I would work on identifying the songs first using Fix Songs before worrying about renaming files. If this is already done it would be useful if you could run a Status Report and then Create Support Files so I could see real examples of your file metadata before I create rename scrript for you.

I have some questions about the renaming mask:

• You mention {First letter of AlbumArtist NOT including ‘The’}, is that what you want to do or would it be better to use first letter of Sort Album Artist, for example if have artist Kate Bush using your method she would be put on K, with my method she would be put under B
• Am I right to think the files are currently in something like /Music and you want them moved to
  /Organized but only if they have been matched to MusicBrainz or Discogs.

As for the general process:

• In Preferences:Filename Mask create a new Filename mask and save
• Then Select Music folder

• Select Rename Files task
• On Rename Files tab set Rename files based on metadata to Yes if matched to release
• Set Rename mask and Compilation Rename mask to your new mask

• On Move Files tab set the Move Folder to /Organized

• Select Start

@steveyg777

I plan to use SongKong from my Mac (M1 Pro) for now but would like to try and make it more of a bulletproof/foolproof automated system to leave running on a watch folder as new downloads drop

Once you have sorted out your existiong collertion you can then use the Monitor Watch Folder task to do exactly what you want. This monitors a folder for new folders being added, and then can automticaly process the folder, it combines Fix Songs and Rename Files functionality.

[steveyg777]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the help. what do you mean by “except for playlists we dont deal with playlists only audio files”? are you thinking of a .m3u ‘playlist’ file? because i mean if someone has made a playlist on youtube, for example, and i have downloaded it (it would purely just be songs in a folder with a playlist name) - so is this, then, possible to process in songkong how i described or are we thinking of the same thing and it isn’t supported? could i lock the album field and just tag the songs, thus keeping them as a ‘compilation’ of sorts with the playlist name for the album?

[steveyg777]

@paultaylor

I have some questions about the renaming mask

i don’t want ‘The’ in any artist fields to be considered,ie; The Beatles should be a folder called B, not T. does that make sense?
Also I want the first name to be used, so Kate Bush would be K, not B.

Currently I am testing a batch of random media in a folder under this path:
‘/Volumes/T7/Temp/!SongKong/Test/!audio-test CONTROL copy’
and yes; i’d like matched media to be moved into a subfolder called /Organized and then organised into relevant subfolders (dictated by media type)

[paultaylor]

Yes I thought you meant .m3u files.

Okay so you can rename these files in SongKong.

I think if you run Fix Songs on these it would be okay but you need to be careful, what I expect to happen is SongKong trys to find and album match but will fail (because there is no such album) so will then do Song Only matching instead, i.e it may modify fields like Artist and Title but not Album Artist or Release

[paultaylor]

@steveyg777

i don’t want ‘The’ in any artist fields to be considered,ie; The Beatles should be a folder called B, not T. does that make sense?
Also I want the first name to be used, so Kate Bush would be K, not B.

Currently I am testing a batch of random media in a folder under this path:
‘/Volumes/T7/Temp/!SongKong/Test/!audio-test CONTROL copy’
and yes; i’d like matched media to be moved into a subfolder called /Organized and then organised into relevant subfolders (dictated by media type)

Yes, that make sense.
But if you want me to help you create mask please run Status Report on this folder and then run Create Support Files because it is easier if I have real data to hand.

[steveyg777]

Ok, thanks for confirming these things. I will send you those reports. I’ve just not had much time yet and I’m at work today. But I’ve got a test case set to run through sk that consists of varied media. I’ll run it later on.

[steveyg777]

ok i’ve generated the support files and assume you have access to them now? (not sure where they are but it mentioned uploading them).

im trying to think things through in terms of making the correct workflow to meet my requirements. regarding compilations, i can’t guarantee all compilations (and playlists) i have downloaded are already tagged as compilations (in itunes you can toggle a field so it’s classed as a compilation. i don’t use itunes or apple music but that was just an example of what im talking about). Im assuming this is a universal field/toggle?
so im wondering if i can either create a scripter that i can 1) specifically run on compilations (perhaps that i put into a folder and then run sk on them), 2) build into sk’s logic in either a scripter (that runs during ALL mediatype filnename masks), or the filename masks, and when sk realises it is a compilation then it makes sure the songs are all tagged as being a compilation?

when do scripters get used? BEFORE, DURING or AFTER filename masks and matching etc occurs?

[paultaylor]

Hi, yes received your support files thanks, will have a look later.

Scripter is a seperate task that you run when you want. So yes if all your Compilations are in one place you could run a script against that Compilations folder to set the iscompilation flag for every single song in that folder before you run Rename Files task.

i.e

iscompilation="1"

[paultaylor]

Okay, since you have run Fix Songs (in preview mode) I though I might just summarize a few things I noticed.

Of the 449 files only about half have been matched to MusicBrainz, but this is largely because they are Audiobooks or radio recordings.

Now of the ones that are matched some folders are split between mutiple MusicBrainz releases. But this isnt done by SongKong, it was already like this I assume done by Picard.

e.g

Now, by default SongKong only updates the existrng ids if the songs already have MusicBrainz Ids as these do so what you want to do is set For Songs Already fully matched to Rematch and this should improve the results.

I also notice that you have checked Only allow match if all tracks in album were matched, this is usually unneccessarily restrictive so I would uncheck this option.

You also have a mix of songs sitting in the root folder, would do better if these were moved into their own folders, note for the Deadmau5 album every track seems to have a different album title

[steveyg777]

ok so your advice on changing some settings helped but only a little. yes either picard had altered some of the files and caused me (perhaps) only to choose incomplete albums at times. tbh when i look at these reports i struggle to understand them to an extent, feel overwhelmed with all the options/tabs and ways to look at it all (im sure if i can figure it all out it is extremely useful to have this much understanding available) and i am left clueless as to what to do with it or how to make it better. for example, and this is what i was referring to when talking about the compilations from the previous thread (before you moved this to its own, new thread). this is a massive part of my frustration in the past with tagging and organising - it may be that i have downloaded an album but it has been thrown together by someone from several releases of the same album name (or so it looks like when i look at a tribe called quests albums on these reports for example). so how do i just get all the songs from the release with the most songs included with it to make sure all the songs can be kept together under the general album name along with track numbering being ok? (maybe 2 songs share the track number from different release versions, how do i solve this problem?)

Have you got any videos/web pages that go through how to understand a report? - im sorry if its obvious where these videos/pages are - i tend to look at sites and feel easily overwhelmed and confused when trying to figure out what to follow along with to learn something such as how to use an app if it isn’t super simple and clear where the tutorials are and there seems to be video, web page and possibly tutorials embedded within a forum section.
and further tips for how to deal with the dilemmas arising from such music collections?

[steveyg777]

i don’t understand how to use iscompilation=“1” to create a scripter, im struggling to understand how to construct the scripters and filename masks and what logic legally combines different script components.

[paultaylor]

Hi, so if you to keep it simple, we can work through step by step

• Move the files directly in /Volumes/T7/Temp/!SongKong/Test/!audio-test CONTROL copy into their own subfolder
• Select Fix Songs task
• Set For Songs Already fully matched to Rematch
• Uncheck Only allow match if all tracks in album were matched
• Possibly uncheck Preview Only to actually make the changes
• Select Start
• Rerun Create Support Files so I can see results

You also have some duplicate files, so Delete Duplicates would be useful but best to do this only after the songs have been identified.

We have a SongKong playlist of all videos here so it would worth watching them if you havent already. We dont specifically have one for the report, and the inconistencies section was only added in the last release so need to document it further.

[paultaylor]

@steveyg777

i don’t understand how to use iscompilation=“1” to create a scripter, im struggling to understand how to construct the scripters and filename masks and what logic legally combines different script components.

Scripter is for setting metadata fields to combinations of other metadata fields
File Rename is for renaming files based on combination of other metadata fields
But both use the script variables to referecne metadata fields

You can create scripts in Preferences and then use them in Scripter task but since it is such a simple script simplest to do the following

• Select Compilations Folder
• Select Scripter task
• Select Start to select Default profile

• In Overall Script field enter iscompilation=“1”

• Select Start to run task

Done

[steveyg777]

i’ve uploaded again. ill look at the videos

[paultaylor]

It has made steady progress,

Another 60 song only matches have been identified from MusicBrainz, (see MusicBrainz bar below)

Old Version

New Version

There are no longer any folders with only some songs matched to Musicbrainz, this Incomplete Folders tab from old report is missing from new report

And the number of split folders has reduced from eight to four

Old version

New version

But you are still running in Preview mode, I would run this for real now, also worth noting it is worth running twice because sometimes Song Only matches from the first run help it to find album matches second time round.

Then you are left with three folders that contains matched to multiple different MusicBrainz albums (using the MusicBrainz:With Split Album Match filter)

So in this case looks like should all be same album so you should force match using Match to One Album

Whereas in this case maybe they are different albums and would be resolved when renamed into different album folders

My point is that its not a great idea to start renaming files until have reviewed and happy with the metadata

[steveyg777]

ok, this is helpful bit of ‘walkthrough’ and is beginning to make a bit more sense with how to work with the app and what it is doing, options to then process better, etc but im certainly not anywhere near where i need to be in my understanding. i will be looking at the videos in a sec but they look like brief overviews instead of detailed walkthroughs? either way im sure they will help at least a little.

i did try to scan one album - a tribe called quest - People’s Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm (of which i have 2 simliarly named album folders. im assuming i can only choose one folder at a time to process(?) unless i move all songs into the one folder? anyway i processed the one folder with match to one album and it came up with a list of possible albums. however i can’t figure out how to konw which album corresponds to which version on MB because the strange numbers included with each of sk’s entries i can’t seem to find those numbers on MB versions, for example “People’s Instinctive Travels And The Paths Of Rhythm (1588539) by A Tribe Called Quest with catalogue no J2-1331 on label Jive released in year 1990 in country United States with score of 76” - which does it relate to on the MB page at https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/02adb8a7-496c-3a9a-a324-662df73fdba5 ???
at this point i would at least find it super helpful for the sk’s release list to include the amount of tracks included (im sure picard does this and makes it far easier to find what im looking for without even needing to go to MB pages because i figure that if i just look for the release with the highest amount of tracks then it gives my songs the most likely chance to be matched to one album release - is that good logic?

so how do i find the specific releae in sk’s list after deciding on the release found on MB’s page of releases?

[steveyg777]

so i’ve just consolidated the 2 simlilarly named folders mentioned before (thinking thats how im supposed to do ‘match to one album’ with sk because it doesn’t seem to allow me to choose more than one folder-?) and it is now saying “We were unable to find any matches that matched all your songs to one album” what should i do?

ps- it’s also saying it for the Midnight Marauders folder you told me to perform this mode on

[paultaylor]

@steveyg777

i will be looking at the videos in a sec but they look like brief overviews instead of detailed walkthroughs?

It takes a fair old time to create a video and everybody wants something slightly different, we want to create more but really the tutorial is where we have more detail covering most things.

@steveyg777

of which i have 2 simliarly named album folders. im assuming i can only choose one folder at a time to process(?) unless i move all songs into the one folder?

yes, well the normal situation is they are usually already in one folder, although I can see selecting multiple folders would be a nice to have feature. But you can process each folder in turn and specify the same release.

@steveyg777

however i can’t figure out how to konw which album corresponds to which version on MB because the strange numbers included with each of sk’s entries i can’t seem to find those numbers on MB versions, for example “People’s Instinctive Travels And The Paths Of Rhythm (1588539) by A Tribe Called Quest with catalogue no J2-1331 on label Jive released in year 1990 in country United States with score of 76”

Okay SongKong brings back both MusicBrainz and Discogs potential matches, when it is just a number rather than a hexadecimal guid it is a Discogs match

Selecting View Allbum takes you straight to the page on MusicBrainz or Discogs

e.g

https://www.discogs.com/release/1588539-A-Tribe-Called-Quest-Peoples-Instinctive-Travels-And-The-Paths-Of-Rhythm?redirected=true

@steveyg777

at this point i would at least find it super helpful for the sk’s release list to include the amount of tracks

That is a very good point, dont know why I didnt do this and have raised an issue for this.

@steveyg777

because i figure that if i just look for the release with the highest amount of tracks then it gives my songs the most likely chance to be matched to one album release - is that good logic?

Not really, i would take the first one, this one has the highest score or go with the one with same number of tracks possibly.

[paultaylor]

@steveyg777

so i’ve just consolidated the 2 simlilarly named folders mentioned before (thinking thats how im supposed to do ‘match to one album’ with sk because it doesn’t seem to allow me to choose more than one folder-?) and it is now saying “We were unable to find any matches that matched all your songs to one album” what should i do?

ps- it’s also saying it for the Midnight Marauders folder you told me to perform this mode on

Okay I think the issue is that you have duplicate files, especially tracks 8 and 10.

So just try manually deleting them and retrying. You could also use Delete Duplicates but in this case I think just easier to manually delete them since it is obvious what the duplicates are.