SongKong Jaikoz

SongKong and Jaikoz Music Tagger Community Forum

Support for Lyrion (LMS) tagging profile

#24

Yes, that is a fuzzy heuristic, rather than a logical criterion, I agree. But I maintain that an option to exclude non-shared artists from ALBUM_ARTIST in the case of a (flagged as) compilation album would still be useful and a big timesaver, even if it were necessary to decide whether to turn it on or off per individual album. The fuzziness is then relegated to the end user whether to turn off or on, and at least saves a “Manual Edit” stage.

But I’ll go back and reread and think some more on this issue.

No, composers are not incorrectly included. That handling appears to be correct.

#25

But this isn’t a compilation album anyway, I’ll wait to see what you find about from Lyrion community. At the moment I’m feeling don’ t like providing an option to essentially set the Album Artist to the wrong value to work round an unclear Lyrion bug. You may be able to do something with Scripter, the difficulty here is that it works per song rather than per album, but you can compare the values in your files with the values from the matched MusicBrainz release so I think it is a possiblity.

#26

Just to add some input to this. Lyrion’s tag handling is set out here. It absolutely does read multiple tag entries where they are part of the tag specification e.g. VORBIS COMMENTS, but it also lets you define a tag delimiter (default ;) which it will also use to split tag values.

So for a FLAC file, writing:
artist=john doe
artist=jane doe

is the same as writing:
artist=john doe;jane doe

where Lyrion is concerned.

#27

Lyrion will assign and show as many albumartists as your tags define.

#28

So for a FLAC file, writing:
artist=john doe
artist=jane doe

is the same as writing:
artist=john doe;jane doe

Absolutely correct. I had worked this out part way through the this forum thread, but it’s worth noting for future readers that I explicitly retract point 1 of the top post of the tread. On subsequent testing setting multiple separate tags as SK does if
Save multiple values as separate fields: is set works perfectly.

#29

Yes. The point I was making in the later posting was that certain albums are best rendered by Lyrion without some of what Musicbrainz considers to be album artists, and need to be omitted from the ALBUM ARTIST tags. LMS puts them into the performers list, which in the less common (but not rare) cases like the album cited is very misleading, and jarring to view.

#30

I thought there was a bug with Album Artist that from your screenshot it was only showing the first album artist rather than both of them?

#31

Lyrion definitely displays as many album artists as you list when tagging an album. If ; separated or written as distinct tags each becomes a clickable object referencing the individual albumartist enabling you to explore their albums in your lib.

A key thing is if you add mbid’s they need to have a 1:1 correlation - this applies to albumartist, artist, composer. If you break the 1:1 correlation you get the wrong name associated with albums and tracks because Lyrion will favour the MBID. The implementation is flawed though, because it doesn’r reject MBIDs where the number of MBIDs does not correspond with the number of names in those tags, so if you’re missing an mbid the mismatch manifests.

artist a;artist b;artist c
mbid a;;mbid c
would result in mbid c being associated with artist b.

Given this state of affairs I think there should be an option to not write MBIDs when there is not a 1:1 relationship.

#33

Aha, Yes, the problem is exactly that reported by Optimal-Procedure885 of the MBID tag taking precedence. Deleting all RELEAS_ARTIST and MB RELEASE ARTIST ID tags produces this result:

Screenshot_20260215_095301
Screenshot_20260215_0953011559×618 230 KB

So it was the MB Release Artist ID tags responsible. Thank you. Definitely sub-optimal behaviour by LMS at fault here!

#34

Do you mean with SongKong ?
Assuming configured Artist and Album Artist fields to write multiple fields then under normal circumstances SongKong would always write the same number of artists to the Artist field as artistids to the MusicBrainz Artist Id field, and the same number of album artists to the Album Artist field as albumartistids to the MusicBrainz Release Artist Id field.

It would only be different if you had SongKong configured in such a way as to prevent this, e.g add Artist to the Never Modify Artist option but allow modification of the MusicBrainz Release Artist Id field.

Or have you found a bug?

There is no corresponding id field for composers.

#35

I don’t understand. So with the original screenshot did it only show one release artist at top because you only had one Mb Release Artist Id, or have you not solved that problem?

In your last screenshot looks like you have fixed it by removing album artist and mb release ids. but it cannot be solution that you cant have multiple album artists if they do not perform on every track.

#36

The earlier screenshot had the tags

MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID

set for both album artists, even though I had removed

ALBUMARTIST and ALBUM_ARTISTS.

The difference between the earlier and later screenshots is a consequence of deleting the MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID tags.

An alternative way of understanding this, is that running “Fix Songs” on an already correctly tagged set of FLAC files (ie without any ALBUMARTIST and MUSICBRAINZ_ALBUMARTISTID tags) results in the SK summary:

  • All tracks have updated the Album Artist , Sort Album Artist , Artists , MB Release Artist Id , Album Artists , Sort Album Artists and Sort Artists fields.

which incorrectly puts these tags in.

Some help from SK in handling this case by excluding the album artists (and their MB IDs) would be a great help - even if it were a simple optional setting

**This is a "Various Artists" compilation album.**

and leaving the decision to the user (if SK can not reliably establish that is the case). Currently the only way to fix that is to follow “Fix Songs” with a manual edit, empty the top row of at least four tags and “Copy Row 1” in every case. A single SK option to treat the album as “Various Artists” from within “Fix Songs” (and/or match to one album) would remove quite a combersome step from the workflow.

#37

So what Im trying to understand is why it did it not display both album artists then instead of just Magar Argerich

This is what I’m struggling with, its not incorrect as far as I can see. This is not a Various Artists album, nor is it a compilation. consider if you were a record shop looking for this album I am sure it would not be listed under V for Various Artists

So it seems we are pretending it is a Various Artist Compilation album to shoehorn it into Lyrion, wouldn’t it be better to understand why Lyrion is adding album artist to the track artist information ?

So having such an option would make no sense in Fix Songs because this task can be run on multiple albums, and would be very dangerous if you set this option forgot about it and run it over your whole music collection wiping all your albums artist information.

Using with Match to One Album would not be so dangerous but as i say above I don’t agree with the premise that this a Various Artists Compilation album.

If you want to run Fix Songs or Match to One Album and not modify certain fields beause you want it to have this Various Artist Compilation logic you could do this by adding these field to Never Modify these Fields and storing in a profile so they are not added, then just use this profile for these kind of albums

You could also run a MetaGrater or Scripter task afterwards to remove these fields, again this could be in a predefined profile so you don’t have to set it up each time.

#38

Yes. Basically ig SK guarantees that every time it writes multiple artist or albumartist tags there will always be a 1:1 mbid then no issue, but if there can ever be a situation where:

artist=tom
artist=jerry
and there’s no mbid for tom but there is one for jerry

Then SK should not write the mbid for jerry, because Lyrion will assign it to tom.

#39

That should not happen, I have checked the code

If matches to a MusicBrainz Release then no issue since all artists on a MusicBrainz release have artist ids and we add artist/artists/artistsids and releaseartist/releaseartists/releaseartistids at the same time.

If matches to Discogs no issue we do not overwrite fields if already matched to MusicBrainz, if not already matched to MusicBrainz then when we add artists and releaseartists there is no attempt to match to MusicBrainz artists and add artistids.

If matches to Bandcamp then Bandcamp only supports a single artist, we try to match that artist to MusicBrainz and if match found we add artisid/rteleaseartistid if not we dont, but there is only ever one artist/release artist added. Does not overwrite fields if already matched to MusicBrainz.

If matches to Acoustid Album (which means matching a group of songs by Acoustid that do not link to MusicBrainz and finding common album metadata for all the songs on Acoustid) then Acoutid Albums only support a single albumartist/artist and we therefore we only ever add one artist and possibly one artistid, same for track artists. However, there does seem to be one bug we dont need to modify the artists or albumartists fields in this case although this should not cause you an issue since you don’t use these fields.

Then at save time there is one addtional tidy up where we try and improve the artist data for songs that have not been matched. This makes artist and artists fields consistent and trys to match the artists to MusicBrainz artists. If matches are found it can add artistids, but already it only does this if all artists on song could be matched to MusicBrainz artist

So I’m not aware of any issue, if you see an issue let me know.

#40

Does that mean if I have artist=a;artist=b and Musicbrainz matches the album and track and Musicbrainz for whatever reason only has artist=a or artist=b, then SK will remove the other entry and overwrite it with what MusicBrainz has?

#41

I believe the discrepancies between the artist list and the MBID lists arose in my case, as a result of manual editing (using Jaikoz, but it might equally be done in SongKong manual edit).

Your account suggests that SongKong “Fix Songs” task will always put that right. Would that be a correct understanding?

#42

And now I will find out whether there’s an issue tracker for Lyrion Music Server and submit some reports as there are at least two bugs or fragilities which have arisen from this discussion.

#43

By default yes, when we we match an album to MusicBrainz for any fields that MusicBrainz has data for SongKong will overwrite existing data, but you can modify this with Never modify or add these fields and Only Modify the fields If empty options.

Yes, as long as SongKong actually matches your songs to a MusicBrainz album and you have not configured some fields so they cannot be modified.

#44

Did you manage to do this?

New versionn now available with fixes for some of the Classical issues