Questions about new release

[greengeek]

I just upgraded to 3.8.0 and noticed some of the auto correct features I really liked in the previous release no longer seem to function. For example, I have an album that is 4 discs. I use the “Match Songs to Specified Musicbrainz Release” on each disc. That would typically fill in the vast majority of the information. After I have done this I would run the “Auto Correct”. This would clean up any tags, grab better artwork from discogs, find lyrics, etc. Basically fill in any missing info.

Since I upgraded to the latest version I noticed this is no longer the case. Now the “Auto Correct” is taking away the unified information. For example, with the 4 disc Compilation from Musicbrainz, it now grabs individual song artwork, instead of keeping the artwork that is suppose to be with that release. The Disc Total and the Disc No fields are all off. They are showing different numbers, I can only suppose it is trying to match the songs instead of looking at the MB Release ID that I provided. Same with the Release Discogs URL field. It is totally ignoring the fact that the musicbrainz release id is set and instead just looking up each song individually and linking to a ton of different albums, YUCK!

I really liked all the latest changes that were made to jaikoz as it allowed me to focus on complete albums and not just random orphan songs. Is there any setting or anything that I can change to go back to the behavior in 3.7.1? The way it currently works is really counter productive for me. Especially as I try to deal with only complete albums, whether they be main album releases or official compilations. 3.8 seems to be a big step backwards when it comes to supporting albums in general and trying to stay in the middle of album release vs compilations.

I would really like to get this to work as it has in the past. Please advise.

[paultaylor]

Oh dear the main point of 3.8.0 release is that Autocorrect works at Release Level when it didn’t previously !

If you have already matched your songs to Musicbrainz you shouldn’t be running Autocorrect From Musicbrainz because this tries to find a match based on the metadata rather than taking notice of existing unique ids, however it actually ignores tracks with unique ids and should have no effect (Preferences/Musicbrainz/AutoMatch/Do not Match Online if already has Musicbrainz Id)

Instead you should be using the Update from Musicbrainz Ids and Update from Discogs options , however once again I’m confused because if you have already run Match Songs to Specified Musicbrainz Id it will already have updated all the fields it can at that point.

It might be Discogs messing up fields completed by Musicbrainz , the default autocorrecter run Autocorrect from Musicbrainz AND Autocorrect From Discogs, Discogs might not match the equivalent release to that found on Musicbrainz but you can enforce that it does using (Preferences/Remote Match/Discogs/Only match if matches Musicbrainz Release)

So please check what is happening here, and send me your support files so I can see what has been run.

Two known problems maybe affecting your result though are:

1. It is more difficult to match Multi Cd releases than Single Cd releases, because the way Musicbrainz stores each disc as a seperate release (this will change in NGS)

2. I think there is a bug with not all songs being update with the same artwork, this has been reported before but until recetly Ive never been able to reproduce it.

[greengeek]

Thank you for your reply. What support files would you like me to send?

Far as the multiple disc releases go, yeah I have noticed that problem in the past with both this app and picard. Neither like to deal with the multi disc because of how the current musicbrainz has the discs divided. That is why I assigned each disc by hand to a unique mb release (highlighting all of a disc, right clicking on them, then assigning them to a mb realease id that I had looked up on their site). I was hoping I could then use auto correct like I have in the past to just check what I have already assigned there against discogs and the lyrics to update any missing info that music brainz did not have or find any artwork that might be of higher quality. In the past it would add missing info that pertained to the album. Now it appears to add missing info pertaining to a song. IE one 4 disc album now has 20 or so different songs with different cover arts, different total track numbers, discogs urls, etc. It appears that instead of adding to or enhancing what was missing, it was going through and not taking any of the other factors into consideration which was really disapointing.

I really like the work you have done with the automation. I am just greatly disappointed that instead of finding a middle ground between original releases and compilations, it is just focusing solely on the original release and messing up compilations. I am not sure what the solution to this would be, but the previous release at least allowed a bit more tolerance for compilations and best of releases while still providing a way to set preferences for original album releases.

EDIT: Thinking about it, my biggest concern with this release is that jaikoz is ignoring the existing mb release id when doing an auto correct. It really should be able to take into account that info if it is present on all the songs in the tags and only add info pertaining to that release instead of trying to break it all apart at a song level. If that info is not available then do what it is doing now and try to guess the release. It should really not be trying to guess a release when that info is there telling it which release it already is. This would at least allow people to manually assign releases to their music based on the tools you have already provided within the app and not worry about the auto correct feature trying to pull the album apart.

[paultaylor]

[quote=greengeek]Thank you for your reply. What support files would you like me to send?
[/quote]
Advanced/Creat Support Files as usual

That is why I assigned each disc by hand to a unique mb release (highlighting all of a disc, right clicking on them, then assigning them to a mb realease id that I had looked up on their site). I was hoping I could then use auto correct like I have in the past to just check what I have already assigned there against discogs and the lyrics to update any missing info that music brainz did not have or find any artwork that might be of higher quality. In the past it would add missing info that pertained to the album.

Hmm, I dont feel really feel like you read my earlier reply.

Previously you said you used the Match Songs to Specified Musicbrainz Release which is the correct way to do it because it then updates all the Muiscbrainz Info, (and Discogs info if there is a link to Discogs from Musicbrainz) in one go. But now you say you are just manually entering the release id, so the uniqueid which matches each track to a release has not been worked out yet which means when you run tasks like Autocorrect From Musicbrainz they ignore the fact that you have entered the releaseid because there is no uniqueid. It is whether a song already has a unique id that governs whether Correct from Musicbrainz trys to find a match for the song not the release id. Otherwise you have two problematic scenarios.

1. A user has already matched to Musicbrainz Id (maybe from another program) and is unhappy with it, to do another match they would have to delete the MB Unique Id AND the MB Release ID fields.
2. Just because you think you have found the matching release and have entered the releaseid it doesn’t always mean Jaikoz can derive which track goes to which depndning on the metadata in the track. Its entirely possible that you match to a releasse with a completely different version of the track then you have and no match is possible. So then you would have the scenario that you dont have a match to Musicbrainz and Correct from Musicbrainz wouldnt try and find any matches because the MB Release Id field is not empty.

Jaikoz has never ignored songs with just a releaseid when running Autocorrect From Musicbrainz. If you run Update Songs from Musicbrainz and your songs do have a releaseid but no uniqueid then it will try and match the songs to tracks, and if successful update the other ids but this is a hangover from earlier versions of Jaikoz and you should now use Match Songs to Specified Musicbrainz Release

Now it appears to add missing info pertaining to a song. IE one 4 disc album now has 20 or so different songs with different cover arts, different total track numbers, discogs urls, etc. It appears that instead of adding to or enhancing what was missing, it was going through and not taking any of the other factors into consideration which was really disapointing.

Please try using Match Songs to Specified Musicbrainz Release as explained above, and then just running Correct Lyrics thats all you need.

I really like the work you have done with the automation. I am just greatly disappointed that instead of finding a middle ground between original releases and compilations, it is just focusing solely on the original release and messing up compilations.

That statement is completely untrue - with the default options it now keeps compilations together much better than before. In fact if you just were to run Auto Correct from Musicbrainz and nothing else you should get good results in most cases, but to really tighten things up you can also enable Preferences/Remote Correct/Match/Only Match Complete Release

[quote=greengeek]
EDIT: Thinking about it, my biggest concern with this release is that jaikoz is ignoring the existing mb release id when doing an auto correct. It really should be able to take into account that info if it is present on all the songs in the tags and only add info pertaining to that release instead of trying to break it all apart at a song level. If that info is not available then do what it is doing now and try to guess the release. It should really not be trying to guess a release when that info is there telling it which release it already is. This would at least allow people to manually assign releases to their music based on the tools you have already provided within the app and not worry about the auto correct feature trying to pull the album apart.[/quote]

To reiterate, you need to use Match Songs to Specified Release so that both Release Id and Track Id are filled in, or just use Autocorrect from Musicbrainz

[greengeek]

Sorry, more than likely I am not explaining it correctly or using the correct terminology on what I am doing and what I am seeing and why I am jumping to these conclusions. So let me run down what I am seeing and the exact steps I am doing. These would be for the last 20k or so tracks I have tagged.

1. I typically will run all my files through picard. That way it can pick off any albums that are easy to identify. I like how it groups albums and gives me a quick display of what is missing or what is extra, and the color code for the accuracy. This usually leaves me with albums that are either not in musicbrainz database, poorly or missing tags, or have multiple discs.

2. I then look up each album I have in musicbrainz manually. If I find a match I load that folder into jaikoz. Being just the single album. Sometimes single disc albums, other times multiple disc albums.

3. If it is a single disc album I click on Action from the Menu, Match to Release, Match Songs to Specified MusicBrainz Release. I then copy and paste from the musicbrainz website the MBID from the Release information. If the album had multiple discs, I would do the same thing, but highlight only disc at a time and access the same functions through the right mouse click menu.

If there was enough information in the tags, and there wasn’t more songs than it had listed, as well as it seemed to be dependent on if the duration was available at MB to help it identify the songs on poorly tagged tracks, It would then tag the songs.

4. Next I would hit up the Reports menu and verify that all albums were complete. If any tracks were missing I would delete the album as I am not a big fan of incomplete albums.

5. I guess this would be enough, but I was also under the impression that the auto correct would grab additional information and try to find higher quality artwork from discogs and what not. As well as it seemed to try to locate lyrics, also seemed to try to clean up any capitalization issues. So I would then click on Action, Auto Correct.

Depending on the size of the album, the time of day I was running it, etc, it would take 15 minutes to 30 minutes to complete (I have an older computer).

6. At this point I was mainly done. If an album couldn’t find any artwork, I would locate it on the web and paste it into jaikoz.

Probably my actions are overly tedious and there is probably a better and more efficient way to get the same results quicker with the same accuracy and I would be more than happy to learn how and change my process as I do admit my current way is extremely time consuming.

The reason for my first post is to find out why I am now seeing different tag information compared to the previous release. For example album artwork. Before the albums showed up with either all the same artwork or no artwork. Now I will have some songs from the album with artwork, some with out, and they may be all different images. Previously I did not see fields that had different information in them such as Disc Total, Disc No, Release Discogs Url. To be honest, I couldn’t say if it added them all previously, or ignored them all previously. Just now I notice it as they would be filled in on some songs and not on others, as before the whole colum would be full or empty, again with only having one album loaded into jaikoz.

You mentioned just to run Correct Lyrics after I match to a specified musicbrainz release. If I do that would it then not take advantage of any of the discogs features? I may be confused, but I was under the impression that running the one after the other would grab additional information that the first might not have had, such as better album artwork. I am guessing I might just need to modify my auto correct preferences to match more what I am use to, but am just a tad confused with the new changes. I read over the release notes, but to be honest did not fully comprehend everything, then again reading it at 3am couldn’t be helping much.

I really do enjoy using this program and I have posted many different places suggesting its use and recommending it. I do not mean to be a pest. Any help or insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[paultaylor]

5. I guess this would be enough, but I was also under the impression that the auto correct would grab additional information and try to find higher quality artwork from discogs and what not. As well as it seemed to try to locate lyrics, also seemed to try to clean up any capitalization issues. So I would then click on Action, Auto Correct.

Okay at this point there is a misunderstanding. Firstly Autocorrect is configurable and can contain many different tasks (Preferences/Manipulators/Autocorrecter) so when you are running the Autocorrecter you are actually running a number of tasks that can all be run individually.

When you do Match to Specified Musicbrainz Release it will automatically get Discogs information if there is a link to Discogs from the Musicbrainz Release so there is no point running Autocorrect from Musicbrainz again.

Default autocorrecter also does some autocorrects to fix things like capitalization but this is not as accurate as the data in Musicbrainz, you would normally run these tasks BEFORE trying to match to Musicbrainz

It also includes Autocorrect From Discogs, which trys to find matches from Discogs for songs that either weren’t found in Musicbrainz or were found in Musicbrainz but had no link to Discogs. I think in your case where you want really good matching from Musicbrainz you probably dont want to run this.

So this is why I said just run Match Songs to Specified Musicbraizn Id, and then run Correct Lyrics, that will get the data you want without stepping over the line and getting more information that might not be quite right.

But in 3.8.0 things are better than that I would recommend you try the following workflow:

1. Configure Autocorrecter to just have
   Correct Metadata from Musicbrainz
   Correct Lyrics
2. Set Preferences/Remote Correct/Only Match Whole complete releases
3. Set Preferences/Remote Correct/Preferred Country of Release and Preferred Media to the settings that best suit your collection.
4. Now run Autocorrecter, this should only match complete matches, its like running Match to Release/Match song to one Musicbrainz Release over your collection in one go.
5. Once this is complete, than do manual search on Musicbrainz and use Match Song to Specified Release for the albums that Jaikoz failed to match.

The reason for my first post is to find out why I am now seeing different tag information compared to the previous release. For example album artwork. Before the albums showed up with either all the same artwork or no artwork. Now I will have some songs from the album with artwork, some with out, and they may be all different images.

I think there is a bug in this area AND you might be seeing that some of your songs are getting matched at track llevel to a Disocgs release and some are not, so only some get the artwork

Previously I did not see fields that had different information in them such as Disc Total,

This is a new field in 380, it wasn’t populated in 371

I really do enjoy using this program and I have posted many different places suggesting its use and recommending it. I do not mean to be a pest. Any help or insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks, yes I know

[greengeek]

Thanks for the clarification. I will give those suggestions and settings a try. I will also get those support files sent to you in case they can be of use.

[michaelg04]

this is exactly why we need the ability to create multiple auto-corrects. especially since not all functions have hotkeys, and i noticed 2 hotkeys i use all the time, one of them has changed. i do the exact same thing, match to release since, then auto correct, but not always. and i’ve added stuff to auto correct so i don’t have to do it manually