Desiring yet more MULTI VALUE tags

[999jaikoz]

First, thank you for fixing the OCCASION tag in flac files.

Second, I would like to declare your program elegant, powerful, and intelligent. I am truly impressed.

Third, I would like to say how sorry I feel for you. What chaos this tag realm is! With multiple file types, multiple tag spec releases within file types, and multiple programs all taking liberties with the implimentation of tag useage; it cannot be easy to keep most people happy.

I believe what is needed today is one POWERHOUSE and SERIOUS program which begins to define what is expected of any other program with regard to TAG standards. Sadly, itunes (which has YET to be better than even the long deceased Sonic Foundry Siren Jukebox) has probably held that position. But, I do believe your program could assume that role. We’d all benefit; I wish you luck!

Lastly, pleeeease consider a minor release which would allow muliple values in the OCCASION tag. Once again, I discover my effort to rely on that tag is a bust, as I need multiple values. I will probably just usurp CONDUCTOR or COMPOSER tags for my need, but I will forever wince at the resulting completely erroneous labeling. I have also seen hints that the COMPOSER tag has little unhappy surprises in store for me. Someday I hope this realm gets solid, sensible standards implemented universally. This is hard.

[999jaikoz]

Hello Sir.

As I used an imploring “pleeeease” previously, I thought it appropriate to write to say, don’t worry about it. Its not going to help me, anyway.

I am relying on Jaikoz’s export to xls file as my safetynet/backup for the critical info I am trying to embed in my music files. You may say why is that necessary; well in testing other tag and music programs for my needs, I was terrified to find some programs all but vomit tag info (mostly meaningless or erroneous), often without a confirmation dialouge and always without an option for ‘undo’. I must anticipate that sooner or later some of my files may be touched by other programs, and its hard to know just what damage to the tags might be done.

Now my issue (and I wouldn’t mind learning a workaround if it exists), is that the EXPORT CELL of a MULTIVALUE field doen’t ‘flatten out’. Right? Only the first entry in a multivalue field will make it into the xls export. Am I wrong?

This is a deal breaker for the multivalue fields in my case.

At this point I have found I should use custom1 and custom2. I tried hard to steer clear of them, fearing they might be the most ideosyncratic tags of all; but they move back and forth between Mediamonkey and Jaikoz in both MP3 and flac without any peculiariaty! A semicolon stays in place as a delimiter (whether it should or not) and Mediamonkey handles that as multivalue entries. That hasn’t been true of any other tag experimentaion I’ve made. Further, they back up to xls in a way that is workable. I’m sure I will encounter a reason I will regret using these fields eventually; but as long as the tag info is fully preserved, I can deal will it.

I believe my issues with tag mangling while moving back and forth from jaikoz to MediaMonkey in the other fields is related to Mediamonkey coding, so don’t think I’m implying Jaikoz has peculiarities. I still REALLY appreciate Jaikoz! Do please let me know if the export of multivalue fields is more capable than I found it to be.

[paultaylor]

Now my issue (and I wouldn’t mind learning a workaround if it exists), is that the EXPORT CELL of a MULTIVALUE field doen’t ‘flatten out’. Right? Only the first entry in a multivalue field will make it into the xls export. Am I wrong?

Ah, it does flatten the Genre and Artists field, separating each subvalue with a semicolon when exported. But there is some code missing meaning it only exports the first value for the fields that I have newly made mutlivalue, artist,composer and conductor.

I’ll have to fix this for next release.

I do want to support multiple values for any field, but seeing as most field would not normally be used for multiple values I need to make some changes to the UI before I can do this so it isn’t distracting.

At this point I have found I should use custom1 and custom2. I tried hard to steer clear of them, fearing they might be the most ideosyncratic tags of all; but they move back and forth between Mediamonkey and Jaikoz in both MP3 and flac without any peculiariaty!

Yes because when I added them to Jaikoz, I took the definition directly from Media Monkey !

[quote=999jaikoz]
I believe my issues with tag mangling while moving back and forth from jaikoz to MediaMonkey in the other fields is related to Mediamonkey coding, so don’t think I’m implying Jaikoz has peculiarities. I still REALLY appreciate Jaikoz! [/quote]
Lets assume you are talking about mp3s. If using ID3v24 then the correct way to store multiple values is to null separate the values and that is what Jaikoz does. If using ID3v23 there is no specified way, but we null separate the fields again like we do for ID3v24 as this seems the best option.

It maybe that MediaMonkey knows how to split ID3v24 null separated values but not ID3v23 values, not sure offhand.

But would need more information to help with the unmangling

EDIT:Actually you are probably using FLAC not mp3s need mor einformation about when it does work and when it doesnt.

[999jaikoz]

Hi

If I remember right, Mediamonkey options enable selection between ID3v1 andID3v2. They don’t give more specifics than that, that I saw. I’m sure googling would eventually answer the question about ID3v24 or ID3v23. I get the impression its 3v23.

The ‘mangling’ issue is just my venting. I don’t need any fixes from your end. All I need is two/three fields that move back and forth between MediaMonkey and jaikoz without issue (and with full export). I can achieve that now, though it will be great if Mood, Occasion, and Quality also exported multivalue.

I experimented with null value in flac/mp3 in jaikoz/mediamonkey and got no indication I should pursue it. Can’t remember exact results, I don’t think Mediamonkey liked it.

I believe other issues I saw were flac delimited with semicolon came back to jaikoz truncated to first entry only (I see where flac does write each value seperately which must complicate things); and mp3 in multivalue came back with ‘//’ in place of the semicolon. I could make sure these are exact descriptions if its helpful to you, but I have to live with any MediaMonkey behavior, so its sort of out of Jaikoz’s scope. Thus, its not your problem.

I really would like you to continue to do things the right way, rather than a way that suites me. I’m really liking MediaMonkey’s scripting side, but may well leave the player in favor of another down the road anyway.

More multivalue fields sounds great when you can.

[paultaylor]

[quote=999jaikoz]Hi
If I remember right, Mediamonkey options enable selection between ID3v1 andID3v2. They don’t give more specifics than that, that I saw. I’m sure googling would eventually answer the question about ID3v24 or ID3v23. I get the impression its 3v23.
[/quote]
No but you can see what they are set to in Jaikoz in the Version field and you can easily change from one to the other for a file by just selecting from the version dropdown. You can chnage what to use for all fields in Preferences:Save:ID3 v2 Tag

I experimented with null value in flac/mp3 in jaikoz/mediamonkey and got no indication I should pursue it. Can’t remember exact results, I don’t think Mediamonkey liked it.

You dont manually add the null separators, thats just how Jaikoz does it (for example when you add a second genre) , and this only applies to mp3s, maybe I’ll try it myself with Media MOnkey when I have some time.

I believe other issues I saw were flac delimited with semicolon came back to jaikoz truncated to first entry only (I see where flac does write each value seperately which must complicate things);

If you add multiple values to a flac file within Media Monkey it should add two separate fields of the same name to the file, the ‘;’ should just be a visual representation of the fact in the GUI. And then Jaikoz should list as a multivalue field if multi-values are suported for that field in Jaikoz. I’ll have to check.

and mp3 in multivalue came back with ‘//’ in place of the semicolon.

hmm, wierd.

[greengeek]

I ran into a similar problem regarding mediamonkey and jaikoz some time ago with how media monkey separates their multiple fields. I think I have a topic on it buried somewhere on these forums. What I noticed was mediamonkey would add the semicolon to separate the multiple entries, however it would not add the null value. This required me at the time to go in and do a replace all on the column for the semicolon and add the null value in its place on my id3v24 files.