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[paultaylor]

@Budgie

I understand. I am thinking about how best to add this information and the resources required by a music tagger to do this. SK does a great job but is working, in this case only from the uploaded data created by others, which can be flawed and is limited.

I had spent some time working on improving my own tagging data but only for a relatively few works. Unfortunately I have overwritten this in my collection but it is still retrievable from backup data.

Sure, but is less flawed then any individual is going to achieve, from memory your original files only contained a very limited set of metadata fields. To manually add the metadata that SongKong adds for your whole collection would take you a lifetime !

Of course you can manually edit your metadata when the metadata is not quite perfect, but I think in most cases you will find it fine. But you can also edit the MusicBrainz database itself, so if you fixed the omissions as follows:

• Remove the Album Performer relationships (as you say the performers are not involved in every track)
• Add Track Performer relationships for each track

Then autotagging from SongKong would then have the correct list of track artists and performers for each track.

@Budgie

I cannot follow this because the info quoted is not the work but only a track from the work so I do not follow
" and we do store this in the MB Recording Work field" because that would appear to be a field for the whole of the work.

I probably should have said Movement. But forget about Classical for a moment, for a PopRock song the written piece of music is a work, similarly for Classical every movement is essentially also work but usually part of a larger work , and it that case we use the terms Movement and Work , although even for classical there is often just the single work without any movements.

MB Recording Work is simply the work directly represented by the recording (the Movement in classical terminology), in this case this is then part of the work and this is stored in the MB Work field as Così fan tutte ossia La scuola degli amanti, K. 588

@Budgie

so all I need to add is the mapping of the roles to the performers. Any ideas?

Well you can add it manually, or you can add it to MusicBrainz as described above. I cant see any other option, not sure what you are driving at?

[Budgie]

Hi Paul,
Many thanks for sticking with this. I need to study a bit more on Work, Movement and Performer since I have never used these data when tagging manually in the past.

You suggest removing Album Performer relationship and adding Track Performer relationship. How can I do this please?

I had been driving at the idea of SK running a script when tagging a classical album but you may have to look beyond MB to get the basic data needed. Sadly the only data I have is from the booklet for each CD and most of these are only available as hard copies and presently in store.

Meanwhile apart from the answer to the above question, which might be a way to go if I understood it, a quick and dirty way of solving my problem is to edit the track artist tag to remove those not needed in a particular track. This would require all the performers being included so I need to get the couple who had been omitted to be included in each track artist and edit down from there.

Will read on and call for help when I get the first stage right. Your earlier suggestion in post 56/57 gives the gist but not sure how to implement.

[Budgie]

Hi Paul,
Further to this my reading took me to:-

Tagging Classical Music:Part I - The Track Artist

Excellent blog but I think slightly dated now but the gist of your work behind the scenes makes sense. Unfortunately in this case of the work I have used as an example it does not quite give me what I need even for subsequent hand editing.

I still cannot see how to find and use Performer. The MB guidelines suggest “vocal” is preferred to Performer but I am not making much headway. You did suggest you could add Performers (52/62) so could I try that and how would I add this info to MB?

[paultaylor]

@Budgie

You suggest removing Album Performer relationship and adding Track Performer relationship. How can I do this please?

I don’t really want to turn this thread into a MusicBrainz Editing Tutorial, the MusicBrainz forum is full of people who are more expert then me at editing and would be happy to help , and the Musicbrainz Classical Style Guide gives more details on Classical editing

But the good news is they have made adding relationships to tracks less laborious than they used to and will give a quick summary

Create free MusicBrainz account

Go the release

Select Edit Relationships tab

Scroll to the bottom, see the two Release relationships, they should be removed by clicking the red cross

Go to top of page, select the tracks that have the same performers (e.g I have selected first two)

Then select batch-add a relationships to tracks, then re-add the relationship

and select Done

Repeat for other tracks which have different performers

Then enter Edit Note to save the changes

@Budgie

I had been driving at the idea of SK running a script when tagging a classical album but you may have to look beyond MB to get the basic data needed. Sadly the only data I have is from the booklet for each CD and most of these are only available as hard copies and presently in store.

There is nothing better structured and more detailed than MusicBrainz, most other sources are much simpler, so if it s not in MusicBrainz we cannot get it.

@Budgie

Meanwhile apart from the answer to the above question, which might be a way to go if I understood it, a quick and dirty way of solving my problem is to edit the track artist tag to remove those not needed in a particular track. This would require all the performers being included so I need to get the couple who had been omitted to be included in each track artist and edit down from there.

Yes, you could use Edit Songs Metadata within SongKong or Jaikoz to edit the (Track) Artist and/or Performer. Note the differences between these two fields is the Track Artist contains the main tracks artists, for classical this usually contains performers plus conductor and orchestra. The Performer field contains only the performers (not conductor and orchestra) plus the instrument/role they did, also the Performer Name field contains the performers but without their role (there are also associated sort fields)

The minimum manual editing required really depends on what fields you have configured for using with MinimServer.

[Budgie]

Hi Paul,
Many thanks. Plenty to get on with.
If or rather when I get stuck again, I shall start new thread.
Good to see you and minimserver feature everywhere.
Much appreciated,
Alastair.