SongKong Jaikoz

SongKong and Jaikoz Music Tagger Community Forum

Add functionality for "Style tag" ??

Hi there. I’m fairly new to Jaikoz. Really like the program !!!

I wonder. It seems that iTunes does not support the Style tag. Is this the reason that Jaikoz doesn’t support it as well?

Would it be possible to add this functionality? It seems that the current solution offered is to use the Grouping field in Jaikoz, but I would much rather have Jaikoz implement support for the Style tag.

In my view, this would give users great functionality in those applications and mediaplayers that support this Style tag, and still not break the connectivity to iTunes. Am I right?

Any more users who would like to have the Style tag added in Jaikoz?

Greetz, Willem

When you say Style tag I guess you mean Style field, the tag is the term applied to the metadata as a whole. But more to the point I’m not aware of a style field, what media players do support a style field ?

Are you referring to allmusic and the sub-genres?

Example (on the left):

If this is the case, then there is no such thing as a Style tag in the ID3 standard. I have also yet to find a player that supports a Style tag.

And yes, I would love for Jaikoz to have this functionality. However, we’re at the mercy of ID3.org here.

Christ, a double-post… never mind. http://www.jaikoz.com/jaikozforum/posts/list/30/1291.page

I am mainly referring to Discogs. But also Allmusic and Last.fm distinguish between genres and sub genres (aka styles).

I know of one musicserver that is able to work with styles, namely Asset UPnP. And of course also iTunes offers the possibility to use styles in the “grouping” field.

Cheers, Willem

When listening to classical music I browse almost only by folder view, and mainly for this reason: The genre tag ‘Classical’ does not say much, because there is such a great variety within classical music (from violin or recorder solo to piano trio or string quartet and so on to symphony or horn concert or opera and …). I feel the genre ‘Classical’ is useless without the style tag, at least for those of us with more than a dozen classical albums.

@whgmkeller
I’ve been a fan of dbpoweramp for years, wasn’t even aware of Asset. Unfortunately (actually thankfully), I gave up completely on uPNP and switched to XBMC about a year ago. However, it’s not a style frame, it’s just different behavior for Grouping. I’m not really sold on the Grouping/Styles thing yet, as some people (DJs) actually use Grouping for more important things and not appropriate for styles.

Keep in mind that Apple is “above” the ID3 spec and is not afraid to implement things that do not conform. They are not really something to follow, but adapt to.

@Dieter Stockert
Classical is always going to be a PITA to categorize. Even music majors do these “renaissance with a bit of baroque, inspired by blah blah” descriptions. I’m one of those with a dozen albums, and you’re right, I give them the basic genres cos when I want Sibelius, I go to Sibelius.

  • Here’s my long-winded stance/opinion/situation.
    I used to gloss over genres cos nothing utilized them nicely. As we started accumulating devices around the house I realized I should start putting genres in.

I switched to XBMC about a year ago from uPNP/PS3, and found it has a lot of nice sorting features (read: usable). This is where I went nuts on genres.

The 1st problem is that they’re subjective. The second problem is the user-submitted genres (Musicbrainz, lastfm, discogs), not only are there those debates about “such-n-such isn’t real punk”, but also things like “Should be public domain” as a genre all over Musicbrainz. Useless

After a lot of searching, I found that allmusic uses a set list of genres for the reviewer to pick from. They’re not always exactly how you would classify stuff, but they were very consistent and predictable. Their hierarchy also makes a lot of sense with how they categorize their Styles (See http://www.allmusic.com/genres). Of course, you could always tweak your own.

Now, how to get these into Jaikoz? There are (too) many posts around here (from me) about genres. The path I take currently is I put everything from allmusic into the genre field. The genres are always the first, followed by the styles. I use an Excel function to create my string, and once pasted into Jaikoz it becomes a multi-value, but the frame is really a null-delimited string.

BUT, XBMC isn’t working with null delimiters (there is no null character in XML. It’s being worked on, and possibly already fixed in a nightly, but I’m holding out for Frodo in a few months). So currently it will only show the first genre in the frame which is only 14 or so according to allmusic. When XBMC fixes the null issue, all genres and styles will show up. I guess it will be a memory thing differentiating the genres from the styles, but see below “My Master Plan”.

BTW, a while back this was also working properly with Apple. We no longer have Apple in the house so I can’t check anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s broken though. :shock:

My Master Plan
I’m not sure how to achieve this yet, baby steps. I want to go to the Genre list and only see the 14 allmusic genres. I want that to expand the appropriate styles which would return the applicable albums. I’m hoping I can just write some XML exceptions to separate the genres/styles, but the XBMC window behavior is something I can not change unless I learn some programming. If this grouping field styles thing becomes the norm, I can simply open 50k songs in Jaikoz, copy and split the entire genre column in Excel, and paste them back in.

I realize I’m putting all my eggs in one XBMC basket here, but the functionality is the same as any device potentially could have. IMO XBMC is king currently (when you consider it as the entire entertainment package it is), but the next successful solution will not be worse and my tagging scheme should still be appropriate. Unfortunately, this whole genres thing will not get resolved without some collaboration or until somebody sets a new standard.

With hundreds of classical works in my collection I often would like to listen to a string quartet of the 20th century, for example. So the genre or composer tag is not enough.

Subjective tags should not be an issue. I dream of being able to to make tags just like I want them, no matter which tags are supported by the databases (and multi tags too). And I dream of a music server software that is able to go through my collection, read all my private tags and gives them to the control app. And then I dream of a control app that gives me a list of all the tags it gets from the server software and I can tab on every tag to decide if it shall be shown and to move the tags up and down in the list to make my own sorting order. And the control app has to be able to display titles in full length so that I’m able to see if “Bach, Johann Sebastian: Sonata for … BWV 1017” is for cello (in German “Violoncello” or violin.

I dream of something that should (and could) be standard in today’s electronic musical world.