SongKong Jaikoz

SongKong and Jaikoz Music Tagger Community Forum

Naim WAV Genre Import

#21

OK.
Is this something that you may tweak…? As I said earlier, in my mind any genres that are in the file should be transplanted over., perhaps with the priority being any User edits if they exist…
After you explained how the Genre list worked in the preference section I could see it’s use for omitting/including any specific genre wording etc, though now that is not the case for the Naim Import task I wonder if it’s needed…? As I say, I’m more inclined to honour whatever is within the meta.naim file for the particular album…

SC

#22

Hi, thanks for the taking the time to do all this

Yes, that correct. Current behaviour is to only add the first Genre, and it only looks it the standard metadata not the user edits. So plan is to add from user edits if exist, otherwise use metadata provider. Add all genres listed of type Genre and SubGenre - https://jthink.atlassian.net/browse/SONGKONG-2665

So what most customers who use this functionality usually want is the ability to move away from Naim and then when they view their music now stored on a non-naim server (such as Melco Digital Library) see the same metadata as they saw when using Naim. So really we only want to show the default lookup + user edits since this is most likely to match what is displayed. I didnt realize that naim app doesnt actually show Performers but since this is addtional data it is not going to do any harm to add it. So we always use Rovi if present, and only use MusicBrainz if Rovi not present.

Now, I didnt realize that the Naim customer could choose whether to display Rovi or MusicBrainz metadata I assumed it just automatically showed Rovi if existed but looking at your files I see

"preferredAuthority": "musicbrainz",

So it seems I should possibly use the metadata for each file based on the preferredAuthority setting ?
Although it is worth noting if we keep it as it is that will always use Rovi, we can run Fix Songs task afterwards to add MusicBrainz and this task is going to add alot more MusicBrainz metadata than the Naim Import method.

Maybe you added the files to Metadatics before and as part of that it automatically added an ID3v23 tag, you could change the SongKong setting to v24 to force it to always use v24, does that resolve issue ?

I don’t think it is necessary.

#23

Actually since we are just adding all genres, and unlike Fix Songs there are no addtional options for Genres and there will be no existing metadata for these Naim Wav files there is no point having the Update Genres option, if we dont want to add Genres then can always add it to Format:Never Modify or Add these Fields

#24

No problem, glad to try and help out in a small way…

Sounds good. I agree, any user edits if exist take priority and then any provided genre via the Core’s lookup…I think multiple entries would be useful, if they exist…How this is handled re main/sub-genre etc I’m not sure…?

Yes, I appreciate what the ‘typical’ use is of the Naim Import action…I’m sort of coming from the opposite direction in that I want to continue using the Naim server (for now anyway) but I do want all my file metadata populated as thoroughly as possible…If the Naim App improves in the near future and actually uses some of this data (slim chances!), great…but least I know it’s all there present and correct and as I want it…If I then do move to say a Melco at some point, then obviously all is good as the files are all well tagged…

Yes I agree, any/all extra metadata contained within the Rovi/Musicbrainz lookup i.e Performer, Engineer, Composer etc etc may as well be brought over, why not, it’s all there…As I said, I was quite surprised what was there on some files, yet you never see any of it via the Naim App at present…

Yes, when going to the Edit Metadata section of the Naim App (for a rip) you then have the menu bar for the different providers…90%+ of the time it is Rovi that has been applied, but you can globally apply one or the other if Musicbrainz data is there also…But what I often end up doing is a bit of both, as you can apply PER track or field which result you prefer (plus also manually text edit)…How this is saved in the meta.naim file when this happens I’m not sure, does it go down as a User Edit (I guess so?) or is it somehow split between the provider lookups…? Ideally, if it’s flagged as a User Edit, then this would work in terms of keeping the specific selections as priority…?

I’m pretty sure they were bare files from the Core (backups) that I processed via the action and THEN looked at in Metadatics…And yes, I did actually try the v24 only option in the preferences and it seemed to have the same end result…So not sure if there’s a bug there…? I can try a few more thought at some point, just to be sure…It could possibly have been error on my behalf, but don’t think it was…

SC

#25

Yes agree, if I’m following you correctly…!
So you’ll just remove the Genres Tab (currently missing anyway) and options completely from the Naim Import action…and as you say, any omission options could be done via the Format tab…?

SC

SC

#26

Would be helpful if you could do some per track edits then send me a file with details of what you have done so I can see how naim does handle it.

So, there is an issue for Wav that the option does not convert an ID3 tag version if already exists but there should be no problem if there is not an existing tag in that case it should use the specified version.

#27

OK, will do…I’m more than sure that amongst the 10 or so meta.naim files I sent you as examples that many of them did indeed have such ‘mixed’ edits, I’ll just have to go through and identify which ones…! What I’ll do, once I have singled out a few, I’ll then do some accompanying screen grabs of the albums in the Naim App/Edit section so you can also visually see…

Re Tag format – yes, in my mind as NO Naim generated rip/file will have a ID3 tag embedded due to their external meta file method, then Songkong should have embedded the new ID3 with the selected format preference, which on default is ‘Same as or V24’ – that’s why I was confused when it showed as v2.3…!? I’ll have another play…

SC

#28

Yes I can’t tell from looking at the files a track that is user edit rather than a track thatis nondefault (e.g one track MusicBraiinz but the rest Rovi) so Im afraid you are going to have to do it. The difficultly is that in most cases the tracknames wil be identical between Rovi and MusicBrainz.

I’m not aware of any issue on SongKong, it may be an issue with Metadactics but if after more tests you think there is an issue I can revisit it.

#29

Hi Paul – Have just emailed you.

I’ve sent through a couple of album examples that include various type of user edits, mixed with the default lookups etc. Took screen grabs of the Naim App and highlighted relevant and included the album’s meta.naim file from the Core.

IME, I’ve often found differences between the Rovi and Musicbrainz lookups, especially re grammar or ‘stylised’ text, hence whey I will often flick between them within a album’s metadata…

OK, will have another trial or two of the processing…Will come back when I have done so.

Let me know you get the email & attachment OK and look forward to your findings…!

Thanks for now,

SC

#30

Prince Album

– The Default metadata added was from Rovi. But I made a couple of changes, as can be seen highlighted as ’ Rovi + Edits ’

– I changed the album title from Rovi TO Musicbrainz, as they included the ‘peace’ symbol in the title…

– I changed #Track 6 title from the Rovi to Musicbrainz, which is a change in the apostrophe style (I actually don’t know why I did this as I tend to prefer vertical apostrophes…!)

– And I’ve just highlighted that the applied Genres are the default Rovi choices, as is all other metadata displayed in the Naim App, except the changes above….

Thanks so basically if you use MusicBrainz for individual track it is just shown as a user edit so we have

 "preferredAuthority": "rovi",
.......
        "user": {
            "authority": "user",
            "title": "Sign “☮︎” the Times [Disc 2]",
            "tracks": {
                "6": "It’s Gonna Be a Beautiful Night"
            }
        },

Pixies Album

– Again, the default lookup was Rovi and then my Edits.

– I changed the Rovi default album title and manually added my own text, so using neither Rovi or Musicbrainz defaults.

– I changed #Track 16 title from the default Rovi to Musicbrainz, as this used sentence case and thus lower case is …

– Genres are my additions (I guess Rovi didn’t return any)

and then we have

   "preferredAuthority": "rovi",

    "user": {
        "authority": "user",
        "title": "Doolittle [Disc 3] [Demos]",
        "descriptors": [
            {
                "type": "user",
                "id": "Alternative & Indie",
                "name": "Alternative & Indie",
                "weight": "10"
            },
            {
                "type": "subgenre",
                "id": "MA0000012230",
                "name": "Alternative\/Indie Rock",
                "weight": "10"
            },
            {
                "type": "genre",
                "id": "MA0000002613",
                "name": "Pop\/Rock",
                "weight": "10"
            }
        ],
        "tracks": {
            "16": "My Manta Ray is All Right"
        }
    },

So if using Rovi as main provider than SongKong already acts as expected (except for User Genres)

Would be good to have example where you use MusicBrainz as the preferred authority and just use Rovi for a couple of tracks.

#31

OK…!

I’ll see if I can dig up a Musicbrainz example for you to compare, I’m pretty sure I have a few…it’s just finding them…! Will get back to you…

Am I on the clock…?! :rofl:

Cheers for now,
SC

#32

Or just temporarily swap an album to MusicBrainz (I assume you can swap it back to Rovi)

#33

Tis OK, I’ll sort a couple examples…

#34

Found one! Will email you shortly…

#35

Thankyou for the latest files, okay I can confirm it works much the same way when MusicBrainz is preferred source but Rovi is used for some elements. The preferred authority is now musicbrainz and selections from Rovi are just shown as user edits

"preferredAuthority": "musicbrainz",
..........
"user": {
    "authority": "user",
    "title": "Interstellar [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack]",
    "descriptors": [
        {
            "type": "style",
            "id": "MA0000012320",
            "name": "Original Score",
            "weight": "10"
        },
        {
            "type": "subgenre",
            "id": "MA0000002867",
            "name": "Soundtracks",
            "weight": "10"
        },
        {
            "type": "genre",
            "id": "MA0000004432",
            "name": "Stage & Screen",
            "weight": "10"
        },
        {
            "type": "genre",
            "id": "MA0000002521",
            "name": "Classical",
            "weight": "10"
        }
    ]
},

So i have raised issue to consider the preferredAuthority to decide what is the primary metadata set for an album instead of always defaullting to Rovi if available, as this will better match the metadata user expects to see.

#36

Glad you’re making sense of how things are working within the meta.naim file…I guess there’s some logic in whatever is the chosen default lookup becomes the ‘preferred authority’ and then anything after that goes down as a ‘User’ edit, even if it’s fields that come from the non chosen lookup….

Will the action still bring over the ‘additional’ metadata such as credits, performers etc etc if it’s there within the file from Rovi even if Musicbrainz is the main chosen ‘authority’ …?
I guess a second lookup via SongKong Fix Songs would achieve similar, but would just be nice if everything that is there simply comes over on the initial run of the Naim Import action….

OK sounds good, hopefully a bit of progress made re the original issue and refining the overall results of the action….

I guess it’s about waking for the next update build now…?

Thanks!
Steve

#37

Hi, so I think the correct approach is just to add preferred authority + user edits metadata. This is because this will most accurately match what the user sees, and if you try and add information from multiple authorities there may be conflicts. This is especially problematic for performers where there can be differences in spellings, instrument credits ectera so you could end up with the same person added multiple times. Also I dont know if possible that the Rovi match and Musicbrainz could match to completely different albums.

Regarding performers the aim of Naim Import is to match what the users see when using Naim so currently performers are irrelevant as they are not shown by Naim app. Now we do try and parse some key roles such as conductor, composer, producer, engineer but we dont currently process performers . In general the MusicBrainz authority will have better performer credits than the Rovi authority, and you can add this using Fix Songs and this will do a much better job because it has access to the complete MusicBrainz database rather than just the meta.naim file

I have an issue for further processing of performers from Rovi since this does have some benefit if the album is only on Rovi not MusicBrainz, but it is not such a priority issue becasue as described above it is beyond scope of the task.

So the adding of user edts of multiple genres is already done,and the taking account of preferred authority wil also be done for next release and that will be within a few weeks, but Im not going to work on the performer credits for now.

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#38

Sounds good Paul, all makes sense by and large….

I only mentioned the performers aspect as I had noticed a lot of such meta come over with a couple of the tests I did with the existing version of the Naim Import – i.e the Prince Sign ‘O’ the Times example I had showed you….

Anyway, I’ll leave it all with you, you’re by far the better judge…!

Cheers,
SC

#39

Hi fixed the issue with user genres, and the issue assume user uses Rovi rather than Musicbrainz if exists in SongKong 11.2 Souvlaki released 2nd December 2024

#40

Good stuff Paul…! Thanks for the work and developments…

And I like the release name too, one of my favs, so must be a fit in light of me helping out a bit…:grinning:

I’ll download and have a play around in due course….

Of course, ironically, my upgrade license expired about 1-2 months ago, so will have to fix that….! :flushed:

Thanks again,
SC

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